tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626743.post113658390818382873..comments2014-02-14T06:00:08.362-08:00Comments on Expert Opinion: Give me back my cycles!Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626743.post-1142116144429388822006-03-11T14:29:00.000-08:002006-03-11T14:29:00.000-08:00I would pay at least as much as those extra cycles...I would pay at least as much as those extra cycles cost me (i.e., the extra expense of buying a new, faster machine earlier than I might have needed). I say, "at least as much" in consideration of the value of the time it takes to shop around for a new machine and do all the initial setup.Michael Stiberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02164917508588925430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626743.post-1141596044413275332006-03-05T14:00:00.000-08:002006-03-05T14:00:00.000-08:00"software manufacturers are using my cycles to red...<I>"software manufacturers are using my cycles to reduce their development costs"</I><BR/><BR/>Are you willing to pay more for identical functionality, if the software uses less CPU cycles?<BR/><BR/>How much more? 2x?Isaac Gouyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00226627985460018169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626743.post-1141420296120255252006-03-03T13:11:00.000-08:002006-03-03T13:11:00.000-08:00Why do you think "ahead of time compilation" chang...<I>Why do you think "ahead of time compilation" changes 1 & 2?</I><BR/>It doesn't, nor did I say that it did. However, the JVM is really the only <EM>user-centered</EM> reason justifying why I might want to spend cycles running a Java program. The other reasons are <EM>developer-centered</EM>, i.e., them spending my cycles (which I bought) to reduce their development effort.<BR/><BR/><I>We have Michael Stiberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02164917508588925430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626743.post-1141330525842867252006-03-02T12:15:00.000-08:002006-03-02T12:15:00.000-08:00"just being perverse" "really think that many peop...<I>"just being perverse" "really think that many people think of Java as..."</I><BR/><BR/>Michael, I don't think many people think of Java, period. <BR/><BR/>You may be thinking of a particular group of people (people who've downloaded and installed a JVM because a website asked them to, or some other group of people) but you don't say so - so how would I know.<BR/><BR/>It isn't perverse to say Isaac Gouyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00226627985460018169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626743.post-1141232816634707112006-03-01T09:06:00.000-08:002006-03-01T09:06:00.000-08:00Isaac Gouy said...What a relief, finally we can ag...Isaac Gouy said...<BR/><BR/><I>What a relief, finally we can agree a little ;-)</I><BR/>I think we agree a lot, and you're just being perverse here. :^)<BR/><BR/><I>Others assume differently so it's never clear.</I><BR/>Here is the quote from the original post: "There are specific benchmarks in which those other languages are faster, but, overall, across the broad range of tests, C is faster." Michael Stiberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02164917508588925430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626743.post-1141169066305164532006-02-28T15:24:00.000-08:002006-02-28T15:24:00.000-08:00What a relief, finally we can agree a little ;-)"I...What a relief, finally we can agree a little ;-)<BR/><BR/><I>"I assumed it was clear..."</I><BR/>Others assume differently so it's never clear.<BR/><BR/><I>'what most people think of when they think of a "Java program"'</I><BR/>There you go again! You know that isn't necessarily the case, I know that isn't necessarily the case, and neither of us have any evidence for what "most people think".<BR/Isaac Gouyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00226627985460018169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626743.post-1140835449429353682006-02-24T18:44:00.000-08:002006-02-24T18:44:00.000-08:00Isaac Gouy said...There isn't an overall just a se...Isaac Gouy said...<BR/><BR/><I>There isn't an overall just a set of very different particular situations.</I><BR/><BR/>By "overall", I meant over all of the benchmarks cited. There's no such thing as a "final word" benchmark; it all depends on what you're interested in. In fact, that was the motivation behind my later statement about Java applets.<BR/><BR/><I>Remember, we can only talk about the Michael Stiberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02164917508588925430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626743.post-1140723863535719562006-02-23T11:44:00.000-08:002006-02-23T11:44:00.000-08:00"overall, across the broad range of tests, C is fa...<I>"overall, across the broad range of tests, C is faster"</I><BR/>There isn't an <B>overall</B> just a set of very different particular situations.<BR/><BR/><I>"most people's subjective experiences"</I><BR/>I don't believe you're in a position to speak for <I>most people</I> ;-)<BR/><BR/><I>"a language like Java is especially poorly suited"</I><BR/>Remember, we can only talk about the Isaac Gouyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00226627985460018169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626743.post-1138088710451835162006-01-23T23:45:00.000-08:002006-01-23T23:45:00.000-08:00Isaac, that's what I intended by "in general". The...Isaac, that's what I intended by "in general". There are specific benchmarks in which those other languages are faster, but, overall, across the broad range of tests, C is faster. I think this conforms to most people's subjective experiences. I'm not a C bigot; in fact, I do most of my programming in MATLAB, so I understand the productivity and performance gains for other languages, particularly Michael Stiberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02164917508588925430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626743.post-1138061867493129652006-01-23T16:17:00.000-08:002006-01-23T16:17:00.000-08:00"slower than C in general"On the Computer Language...<I>"slower than C in general"</I><BR/>On the Computer Language Shootout website we go to great lengths to say these measurements are measurements of particular programs on particular machines with particular language implementations - <B>these are particular truths not general truths</B>.<BR/><BR/>Did you notice benchmarks where the java program was faster than the gcc program? See <A HREF="http:Isaac Gouyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00226627985460018169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8626743.post-1136957640459267512006-01-10T21:34:00.000-08:002006-01-10T21:34:00.000-08:00But you do pay for those cycles! Last time I check...But you <I>do</I> pay for those cycles! Last time I checked, faster computers cost more than slower ones. And older computers, perfectly usable otherwise, can't run newer applications, even if those newer apps are merely "updated" versions of older ones (think Word). So, you must trade in those older computers for newer ones, which costs money. <BR/><BR/>Our 6+ year-old minivan runs fine (since Michael Stiberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02164917508588925430noreply@blogger.com